tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2269573587631126943.post4677299649752844947..comments2023-06-07T08:05:44.732-07:00Comments on The Right Word: Gingrich and Perry vs. Cannibalism or, Opposing Romney is not Opposing CapitalismDr. Michael Baumanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05013245754748702406noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2269573587631126943.post-68296817339740974072012-01-18T08:47:54.210-08:002012-01-18T08:47:54.210-08:00PWS: In my view, the portion of this document dea...PWS: <br><br>In my view, the portion of this document dealing with Bain is worth downloading and reading:<br><br>http://news.yahoo.com/opposition-file-romney-hits-internet-likely-2008-mccain-094643763.html<br><br>Cheers, and many thanks for pursuing this issue in a purposeful and insightful manner. I appreciate and respect it.<br>MBDr. Michael Baumanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05013245754748702406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2269573587631126943.post-46744097974617819532012-01-14T03:59:22.943-08:002012-01-14T03:59:22.943-08:00I still don't think you're accurately capt...I still don't think you're accurately capturing the actions of Bain, though there can certainly be a legitimate moral debate over the nature of what private equity firms do. In any case, my point in all this was simply that your characterization of Bain was misleading, that most readers of your blog post will get a very false impression, and indeed your repeated and unqualified claim that the business of Bain is "killing struggling companies" is not defensible.PWSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2269573587631126943.post-10085395931379816982012-01-13T09:41:49.740-08:002012-01-13T09:41:49.740-08:00Vulture may not be the best term to useto refer to...Vulture may not be the best term to use<br>to refer to Bain.( Capital) its LBO<br>antics.<br>Cannablism for profit is more on target.<br>Some seem to feel that is his liberty pursuits.<br>Sad, he ducked the draft like Cheney.<br>Is the GOP party becoming the abuser party,<br>under some banner of liberty.<br>Weird is the GOP.<br>Now, a lot of toadies want Newt to shut his mouth,<br>like it can't hack the full truth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2269573587631126943.post-78494428279527149432012-01-13T05:59:53.389-08:002012-01-13T05:59:53.389-08:00After defending Romney/Bain repeatedly against sta...After defending Romney/Bain repeatedly against statements made in a recent pro-Gingrich political ad, CNN ends by saying:<br><br>"To be clear, none of this is to suggest that Romney and Bain didn't make some very real mistakes, or that they shouldn't be criticized for situations in which they profited from financial engineering rather than from company growth."Dr. Michael Baumanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05013245754748702406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2269573587631126943.post-53625167551576243342012-01-13T05:36:22.216-08:002012-01-13T05:36:22.216-08:00You too positively, and to that degree inaccuratel...You too positively, and to that degree inaccurately, describe how Bain sometimes went about making companies profitable, and who got the profit (and who got the shaft) in the process of Bain making money.<br><br>If you take over Acme Corp., replace Acme's management with your own, and if your new management cannot make it succeed, and then, rather than firing yourself for your failure and incompetence, if you break the company up into smaller pieces, fire the workers involved in the pieces you failed to make profitable, and then either sell off or discard those pieces you failed to make profitable, then it remains, to me, an open question (A) whether or not what survives is Acme Corp. and that you have fixed it; and (B) whether or not the way you went about fixing what now goes by the name Acme was moral, even though it was legal and turned a profit for you under the Acme name.<br><br>I'm not saying businesses shouldn't change or evolve over time. They must. I'm not saying that folks should never be fired. I'm not saying failure is no proper part of the free market. I'm saying that some changes, some ways of making a profit, and some ways of arriving at failure deserve criticism. Bain's way sometimes falls into that category.<br><br>Say Fred is a quadriplegic. Say his condition and prospects both are bad. If you cut off Fred's defective arms and legs and either sell them to the highest bidder or just throw them away; if you replace his brain with your own; and if you reap the profits of the work that now gets done; it's highly debatable that what you've got before you now is Fred or that you have fixed him. Perhaps you have worked hard and made a handsome profit for your efforts. But it is not clear that you have done right morally even though you have done well financially. There are better ways to make a living with your impressive medical skills. Saying so is not anti-capitalistic. Gingrich and Perry are not against capitalism. They are against some of the things capitalists do to get money. Bain's work here is not above criticism or reproach.Dr. Michael Baumanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05013245754748702406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2269573587631126943.post-33640087285809009132012-01-12T19:51:08.927-08:002012-01-12T19:51:08.927-08:00The reasons I suggested you didn't know what y...The reasons I suggested you didn't know what you are talking about is that you said "Bain didn't make struggling companies profitable." That's false, since they made many struggling companies profitable. You said they "killed struggling companies." That (in addition to your sick man analogy) implies the intention of ending the company without trying to make it succeed; I suggested that there is no evidence that Bain ever intended that; rather, they intended to fix companies, though in a minority of cases they didn't succeed. I don't know on what basis you reached such a conclusion about the intentions of Bain in those minority cases. Without strong evidence, it seems at best deeply uncharitable. As you note, I had in fact assumed you were uninformed, because given what we know (what I am aware of, at least), your characterization seems so unfair and over-the-top.PWSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2269573587631126943.post-21601981946631276082012-01-12T17:06:08.347-08:002012-01-12T17:06:08.347-08:00PWS, It's both presumptuous and insulting (not...PWS, It's both presumptuous and insulting (not to mention false) to think that because we disagree I do not know what I'm talking about. We agree on what Bain did; we disagree over how it ought to be properly characterized. Nor am I merely repeating what Gingrich and Perry said. I am arguing that they were right to say it and that saying it is not an attack on capitalism. It is a criticism of Bain, and it says that what folks like Herman Cain was more praiseworthy than what Bain did.Dr. Michael Baumanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05013245754748702406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2269573587631126943.post-8435630108621733122012-01-12T03:16:07.179-08:002012-01-12T03:16:07.179-08:00PWS, Bain didn't make struggling companies pr...PWS, Bain didn't make struggling companies profitable; they killed struggling companies and sold off portions of them for the profit of Bain investors. The companies were dissected and their workers, many thousands of them, were sent packing. The process is legal and profitable, but that does not make it morally justifiable. They took a sick man, so to speak, and rather than heal him, they removed his heart and gave it to someone else.Dr. Michael Baumanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05013245754748702406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2269573587631126943.post-71876905882497809342012-01-12T03:08:30.600-08:002012-01-12T03:08:30.600-08:00No, a man is for some liberties and not others. S...No, a man is for some liberties and not others. Some of the things we are free to do we are not right to do. The fact that a particular activity is legal or yields a profit in the marketplace is not a moral justification for the activity. Jesus was not being anti-liberty when He drove the money changers from the temple, even though they were legally free to do as they did and were gaining a profit by it. Those who criticize the morality of some activities are not anti-freedom; they are anti-evil. The bottom line for a Christian conservative regarding any human action is not "Is it free?" or "Is it profitable?" but "Is it good?" If it is not, it merits criticism.Dr. Michael Baumanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05013245754748702406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2269573587631126943.post-60655736534765326952012-01-11T20:36:45.765-08:002012-01-11T20:36:45.765-08:00So: it's *my* business how you dispose of your...So: it's *my* business how you dispose of your own (honestly acquired, naturally) wealth, the sweat of your brow?<br><br>It seems to me that a man is either <i>for</i> liberty, or against it.Ilíonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15339406092961816142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2269573587631126943.post-204422669893392482012-01-11T10:14:40.411-08:002012-01-11T10:14:40.411-08:00We should indeed oppose what you describe here. Bu...We should indeed oppose what you describe here. But that's a false characterization of what Romney and Bain did. That's the problem, and why Gingrich and Perry have been rightly denounced by most of the conservative world as demagoguing good private sector work (taking struggling companies, rebuilding them, making them work better) as those on the far left would. In Gingrich's case this seems shameful because he seems to know better. A month or so ago he let slip the kind of criticism of Bain he has now decided to make central to his campaign. He then quickly apologized and said the remarks "made no sense" and didn't "fit my values."PWShttp://prolifemn.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.com